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In this episode, we explore Jon’s journey into crypto and our mutual passion for research and the writing process. We then give an overview over the key areas of crypto infrastructure today. Finally, we zoom into rollup decentralization roadmaps, and Jon shares a controversial new thesis about sequencer decentralization.
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(02:42) Interview start
(03:44) Jon's work week
(08:04) ChatGPT & writing
(10:57) Jon's start in crypto
(14:45) How to pick things to work on
(17:08) Outsider's perspective on crypto
(19:05) Jon's research process
(22:00) Jon's proudest moment in crypto
(23:06) Crypto Infrastructure overview
(29:58) Why crypto infrastructure is interesting
(35:57) Rollup decentralization overview
(42:44) Challenges decentralizing the sequencer
(47:46) Ethereum vs Cosmos approach to governance & decentralization
(53:35) User ability to opt out
(56:37) Staking vs. governance deciding sequencers
(01:08:31) L3s
(01:13:34) Superchain
(01:16:38) Summary of rollup decentralization
(01:21:08) Outro
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Hasu - https://twitter.com/hasufl
Jon Charbonneau - https://twitter.com/jon_charb
UCC2 - https://twitter.com/UCC2_xyz
Website - https://ucc2.xyz
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Disclaimer: The material and information presented in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the speakers and are not the views of any entity or other person with whom the speaker is affiliated, including, without limitation, DBA Crypto, LLC. The “DBA Crypto” name and all forms thereof are the sole property of its owner, and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
Hasu and Jon bring on Mike Neuder (Ethereum Foundation) and Chris Hager (Flashbots) to discuss the design philosophy of proposer-builder separation (PBS). They first dive into the past and present implementations of PBS, including MEV-Geth and MEV-Boost on Ethereum. Then they discuss the future of PBS - whether PBS should be enshrined, protocol-enforced proposer commitments (PEPC), PBS on L2s, how to prevent censorship, and more.
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:12) What is PBS?
(05:37) The History of PBS
(08:43) MEV-Boost
(10:18) Block Production in Proof-of-Work
(11:31) Benefits of PBS
(14:17) PBS Makes Based Rollups Viable
(16:21) PEPC & Proposer Complexity
(17:46) Other Builder Services
(19:49) PBS & Regulation
(22:48) Regulation & Encrypted Mempools
(24:38) Division of Labor is Inevitable
(26:15) Risks of PBS
(29:03) Development of COre Protocol Software
(33:31) PEPC, POB, & Alternatives to PBS
(41:53) Decentralization vs. Usefulness Tradeoff
(46:30) State of PBS in MEV-Boost
(50:51) Optimistic Relays
(52:09) Enshrined PBS (ePBS)
(55:55) PBS on L2
(58:47) PEPC
(01:05:25) Proposer Commitments & User Intents
(01:09:03) Concluding Remarks
(01:11:05) Recap
(01:12:06) PEPC, PEPC-Boost, & MEV-Boost+
(01:18:44) PBS From First Principles
(01:21:41) PBS is a Philosophy, Not an Implementation
(01:25:44) To Enshrine, Or Not to Enshrine?
(01:35:12) In-protocol vs. Out-of-protocol Development & Funding
(01:50:16) Censorship & Proposer Agency
(01:58:15) Outro & Disclaimer
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Hasu - https://twitter.com/hasufl
Jon Charbonneau - https://twitter.com/jon_charb
Uncommon Core 2.0 - https://twitter.com/UCC2_xyz
Mike Neuder - https://twitter.com/mikeneuder
Chris Hager - https://twitter.com/metachris
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Relays in a post-ePBS world - https://ethresear.ch/t/relays-in-a-post-epbs-world/16278
No free lunch – a new inclusion list design - https://ethresear.ch/t/no-free-lunch-a-new-inclusion-list-design/16389
Payload-timeliness committee (PTC) – an ePBS design - https://ethresear.ch/t/payload-timeliness-committee-ptc-an-epbs-design/16054
Notes on Proposer-Builder Separation (PBS) - https://barnabe.substack.com/p/pbs
PEPC FAQ - https://efdn.notion.site/PEPC-FAQ-0787ba2f77e14efba771ff2d903d67e4#41230925420345af84f31b50d806b8ed
PEPC Open Problems - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12kpwAXbZqUA0fu2HnZKSesVwO31ICbgIiacHd0EQ_fk/edit#slide=id.g2401d3821ec_1_0
PBS Guild Proposal [v3 WIP] - https://collective.flashbots.net/t/pbs-guild-proposal-v3-wip/2223
MEV-Boost+/++ - https://www.blog.eigenlayer.xyz/censorship-resistance-with-restaking/
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Disclaimer: The material and information presented in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the speakers and are not the views of any entity or other person with whom the speaker is affiliated, including, without limitation, DBA Crypto, LLC. The “DBA Crypto” name and all forms thereof are the sole property of its owner, and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service.
